Sump Layout Feedback

[Sherman]

I finally picked up my sump, and would love a little clarification/opinion on how this thing should be laid out.

First, I'm going to plop the skimmer into the same chamber as the filter sock, then go through a bubble trap to the return pump in the center. On the opposite side of the return pump, I'd like to add a chaeto fuge with weirs to overflow into the return pump chamber. The masking tape on the sump represents how I could theoretically install the baffles to seperate the chambers. This is completely in the air, nothing is decided upon, so I'm open to ideas. The only set item is the furthest right piece of masking tape. This is where I'm cutting the sump and attaching a new side piece, so the sump will be shorter. It has to fit in the stand, after all.

1: Would it be better to have the body of the skimmer up against the end of the sump, and the pumps and outflow near the bubble trap? The filter sock is going to go where ever the pumps are, for space reasons. Or would this set up create a dead area of water at the end of the sump, around the body of the skimmer? If the pumps/outflow are upstream of the body (as shown), will the body create a bit of a water block, with only 2" of space on each side of the body for water to get around?

2: How deep can/should the first chamber be filled? The deeper I can set it, the quieter the skimmer's outflow. But this also means less backup capacity for the sump.

3: Is there any reason the return chamber should be any larger than the return pump?

4: Is any one spot better for heaters than another?

5: Is there any reason I couldn't just add the carbon in filter bags within the skimmer chamber?

6: How much room should I give the skimmer? In the photos, the pump that's closest to the end of the sump is 3" away. Is there any reason I can't run that pump right up against the end wall, other than potential for vibration noise?

[Stoker]

One Thing I Would Try Is Cutting The Baffles To Size, But Before Gluing Them, Try Them In Different Places To See What Works The Best...... Also You Don't Know How Much That Skimmer Is Gonna Put Bubble's Back Into The Sump. Another Thing I Picked Up, Put An "Elbow" In The Return Bulkhead Pointing "Down" Inside The Sump, Right Now I Don't Have Any Bubbles Going Back Into The Tank With "No" Baffles "In" The Sump.... What Return Pump Are You Gonna Get? Plumb The Pumps Externally.... If Your Gonna Do The Evaporative Thing, Your Gonna Need The Room....

After Running Carbon In The Sock And Just Sitting In The Sump I Still Feel You Need Some Sort Of Power Running The Water Through The Carbon.. I Bought The Pentair System Like Joe's But Double Not Triple I Got The UV And A Carbon Chamber...... They Work The Way They Should.....

You Should Set The Sump Level So That You Can Do A Thirty Gal Water Change When The Pumps Are Off And Anti-syphon Working

Don't Worry About Heating Right Now

[mdt178]

1: Would it be better to have the body of the skimmer up against the end of the sump, and the pumps and outflow near the bubble trap?
Not IMO. Clean water should be downstream.

2: How deep can/should the first chamber be filled? The deeper I can set it, the quieter the skimmer's outflow. But this also means less backup capacity for the sump.
Each model has a sweet spot. Do a gate valve mod to control the output.

3: Is there any reason the return chamber should be any larger than the return pump?
More room makes ATO work better.

4: Is any one spot better for heaters than another?
Have 2 heaters. I like them between the baffles.

5: Is there any reason I couldn't just add the carbon in filter bags within the skimmer chamber?
Don't know, since I rarely run carbon. But as Stoker said you need a way to force water through them, otherwise it would just go around.

6: How much room should I give the skimmer? In the photos, the pump that's closest to the end of the sump is 3" away. Is there any reason I can't run that pump right up against the end wall, other than potential for vibration noise?
The more the better - easier to stick you hand down there.

[Suohhen]

1: I don't know what you mean by pumps/overflow. I am assuming you just mean the overflow pipes/return water. Although you could mean the overflow pipes are right next to the pumps, but that doesn't make sense to me. Anyways, if you have the skimmer body blocking the water there will be no problem with 2" unless you are trying to run 10,000 gph. The largest inlet for most pumps on the market is 2", and that is a circle. As for what way works better, I have found that it is almost always best to have the intake for the skimmer facing the strongest stream of water coming from the overflows. Because that way it is getting the most nutrients fresh out of the overflow and premixed.

2: The average recommended depth for a skimmer is 8", but there are many exceptions. But as Mihn said, if you do a gate valve you don't have to worry about the water column hight. As for extra capacity to avoid overflowing the sump, don't risk it, I always put around 10 gallons of extra space.

3: So that the pump doesn't contact the walls and vibrate. Pumps, especially when used to pump water out of the sump, vibrate a lot! And also, you may find that you want to use a different pump later on that doesn't fit. And the smaller the return chamber, the faster it will drop from evaporation, which since you use ATO doesn't matter.

4: I wouldn't put the heaters in the return area because if your ATO fails or runs dry for whatever reason, that is where the level is going to drop. Other than that, there needs to be enough flow going by them, which isn't a very high requirement.

5: I put carbon in the return chamber, because this lets me control how much water is going through it.

See in this way you can move the carbon up or down, directly controlling how much water is forced through it. Notice how the water overflows the baffles at a constant rate, and then is forced to travel to the pump. So all the water above the carbon will be forced through it. The screen is so that if the carbon bag comes loose it won't be drawn into the pump intake. I use the light filtering material that they use for office lights. The white egg crate looking stuff with square holes in it. The other reason I put the carbon here is because I put my mesh filter in the second baffle.

6: You want to make sure that the overflow tube isn't close to the edge because if it gets knocked it could be pushed against the edge of the sump and overflow. Also, you don't want the skimmer cup to be over the edge of the acrylic because it can overflow. Although I don't see a traditional cup on yours, like they put on the euroreef or ASM. It looks like your cup will be slid into that recess, so that prevents you from sliding the cup over the side.

[localdeltarider]

I am currently setting up my sump as well. I plan on doing something very similar regarding having my return pump located in the center of the sump. I plan on making my return pump section as small as possible to make more space for my fuge and instead of having a full baffle between the return and fuge i plan on doing a 6" baffle with egg crate on top to keep my cheato in the fuge section. This way, when i get evaporation the water level drops in the whole fuge and return area and not just the return.

I hope that makes sense.

[Bigred]

What's this for? Your old tank or the 120 from Peter?

[Sherman]

Don't Worry About Heating Right Now

Planning, man! Planning! I don't want to rebuild this next winter just because the heaters are finally needed.

2: How deep can/should the first chamber be filled? The deeper I can set it, the quieter the skimmer's outflow. But this also means less backup capacity for the sump.
Each model has a sweet spot. Do a gate valve mod to control the output.

Explain the gate valve, maybe? The outer sleeve of the outflow tube slides up and down to adjust the in-skimmer levels.

1: I don't know what you mean by pumps/overflow.

This skimmer has three pumps, and they're placed immediately underneath the outflow tube of the skimmer. Due to size constraints, the skimmer has to be placed so that the pumps are either upstream or downsteam of the body, but not side by side. Either way, I've decided to keep the skimmer pumps as much upstream as possible.

2: The average recommended depth for a skimmer is 8", but there are many exceptions. But as Mihn said, if you do a gate valve you don't have to worry about the water column hight. As for extra capacity to avoid overflowing the sump, don't risk it, I always put around 10 gallons of extra space.

I was hoping to get the water to 10", because that's when the skimmer is silent. At 10" of water, the sump still holds 15g of water, so it looks like everything will be OK.

3: So that the pump doesn't contact the walls and vibrate. Pumps, especially when used to pump water out of the sump, vibrate a lot! And also, you may find that you want to use a different pump later on that doesn't fit. And the smaller the return chamber, the faster it will drop from evaporation, which since you use ATO doesn't matter.

Confusion on which pumps again. I was concerned how close to the end of the sump I could run the skimmer pumps (this skimmer has three needle wheels). I've decided to leave a 1" space. The filter sock will pretty much be resting right on top of the skimmer pumps, but that's just the way it has to be.

6: You want to make sure that the overflow tube isn't close to the edge because if it gets knocked it could be pushed against the edge of the sump and overflow.

Short, fat skimmer. Outflow tube is actually lower than the sump height.

I plan on making my return pump section as small as possible to make more space for my fuge and instead of having a full baffle between the return and fuge i plan on doing a 6" baffle with egg crate on top to keep my cheato in the fuge section. This way, when i get evaporation the water level drops in the whole fuge and return area and not just the return.

Makes total sense. Interesting idea. I like that, it gives me something to think about.

[Sherman]

So how about a preference on the return chamber? I'm going to run a QuietOne 4000 for a return. If it's not enough, I have a Mag12 that will be. I'm just trying to save on the power bill if I can. Either way, the pump will be run externally to keep the heat source out of the water. Maybe someday I'll get to upgrade to a Sequence Snapper, or something.

The return chamber... it seems this might be a mixed opinion area. As small as possible, or as large as possible? A smaller chamber would allow more more frequent and smaller doses of kalkwasser top off and a lesser skew in salinity. A larger top off has more room for error in case of equipment failure.

What's everyone else's feedback/opinion/take?

[Bigred]

Since you won't answer my question. Here's a design.

[Stoker]

Very Nice Young Redness....... I Think This Sump, If It Is For His 38 Will Hold The Same Amount Of Water........ I Have A Sneaking Suspicion That "This Sump" Is For A Lager Tank.... Can It Be, That Sher-Mon Is Not Telling Us Something.....

[Sherman]

Thanks, Steve. Since I had already figured that part out, I was trying to figure out correct proportions of each chamber, and other such details. I had assumed I was going to use a standard weir setup between the fuge and return chamber. Would a bubble trap be better, then?

[Sherman]

Can It Be, That Sher-Mon Is Not Telling Us Something.....

Between this thread and the large skimmer thread, it looked as if everyone had already figured that out. I'm just trying to nail down the details and do it right the first time, you know?

[Stoker]

Whats A Refug?

[Stoker]

Its Driving Me Crazy....... Getting It Right, Hope You Have Better Luck Than Me... One Things For Sure, I Need Bigger Pumps On That Skimmer...
I Only Have 8 Fish.......... You Work It Out....

Edit: 9 Fish, I Got The Anthias Back From The Giant

Between this thread and the large skimmer thread, it looked as if everyone had already figured that out. I'm just trying to nail down the details and do it right the first time, you know?

[plomanto]

Jason..the sump for my 120 had a standaard weir between the fuge and the return chamber, because of the slow flow thru the fuge there was no bubbles going over the weir or made by the water falling a couple of inches. Antoher thought is, on the bubble trap place tow of the baffles a little father apart (1.5") use this area to push your carbon bag into so the flow is forced into it. Use the side that the flow is from the bottom to the top, and use a little egg crate to keep the bags from floating up.

[Bigred]

You could do a flow-over weir also. I just got line happy. I would make the return area big enough to hold your carbon a float valve and if you do a internal return pump or the out take screen. I say a bare minimum of 6" wide. Refug can be any size. For the skimmer just make sure you have enough room to do maintenance on the pump and so the filter sock doesn't get stuck to them which tends to happen on mine but I also have 32"L filter socks. Also make sure you're able to get the skimmer out of the sump once it's under the tank.

[Anthony]

[quote=Sherman;71168]

The return chamber... it seems this might be a mixed opinion area. As small as possible, or as large as possible? A smaller chamber would allow more more frequent and smaller doses of kalkwasser top off and a lesser skew in salinity. A larger top off has more room for error in case of equipment failure.


I like the idea of a smaller return area, never thought of that. could that work for let's say a 10 gallon tank? I will have a seperate sump and refuge

[weatherson]

You have to keep in mind that water levels will equalize between different chambers separated by an upper/lower/upper type of baffle.

[Sherman]

Also make sure you're able to get the skimmer out of the sump once it's under the tank.

Oh, geez, I hadn't even thought of that. As of right now, there's 9" between the top of the sump and the bottom of the tank. The skimmer is a 10" body.... something's going to have to happen. I see three potential options:

1: Shorten the sump (bad idea, lose backup capacity).
2: Drain the sump and tilt it over if I need to take the skimmer out.
3: Build a new stand.

And this, friends, is why I love this club and the forums. Thanks, Steve.

[eznet2u]

Just a thought, use the short wall between your livingroom and dining room as a stand. You would have to build it out a little but it would have a ton of room under it for "Stuff". You would also be able to vent the sump to the outside, through the wall. Also it would leave a lot of your livingroom undisturbed.

BONUS!!...you would have 3 sides to look into...

Psssst...that's 2 more sides than Joe's tank...and 1 more than Shad's...

[Sherman]

I've actually put serious consideration into knocking that half wall out and putting in a peninsula tank. A peninsula/room divider tank is my "dream tank." This just isn't the house for it, however. Someday.

But no worries, I've put almost as much thought into how I'd manage that tank as I have into this new setup. When Mrs. Sherman and I are out looking at model homes (no, we're not in the market), we always look for the spot where the tank would go, especially a room divider.

[Suohhen]

Sliding out a sump is surprisingly easy if you put it on a pad that is slick. They sell stuff at the Home Depot that is made for insulating walls. It is foam in the middle and a slick plastic on the outsides, comes about 3/8" thick. You just have to make sure that you aren't trying to slide more than half of the weight over the edge, but if you have it designed the way Steve drew it, that should be no problem. The material also helps to absorb vibrations and cushion the sump against wear.

[Stoker]

Take The Bottom Out Of The Stand........

[Sherman]

I thought of another option. I could put a door in the side of the stand, and if worse came to worst, I could move the couch out of the way, and have about 10 feet of open space beside the tank to slide that sump out. However, I just priced plywood, and was surprised by how cheap it was. I may end up making a stand, after all.

[jtravis2]

Jason, my stand is only 36" wide , totally enclosed with a center brace in the front. I had to design my sump/fuge to fit through the space between the sides and the center brace; because of this I had to shorten my sump by 10". Had I been thinking I could have had doors installed on both sides thus giving me a lot more flexibility space wise. If you can i would strongly suggest putting in side door (s).